When i use Fortitude and vampire gaze with cham rune which base is best ?
up untill now it was giant thresher , but is it still ?
iam lost when to figuring damage per second on polearms , it says tresher 77 average dmg but hits fast -10 , stygian pike average damage 87 at speed 0
is stygian pike better than thresher ? iam completly lost what to use as a lightning sorceress on might aura mercenary , looking for min max and can buy anything
non eth mancatcher .
what are you talking about my amazon ? manchaster is fastest so maybe, but why non ethernal ? ethernal is +50% more dmg lol
I’d currently prefer a mancatcher. Ethereal if it’s exclusively for merc.
It’s all debatable, but with a mancatcher your merc can hit the IAS breakpoints more easily and be more flexible with jewels for the helm or the armor he wears. A bit more average damage is nice, but Infinity damage mostly comes from crushing blow and when having Infinity your mercs damage is nice but well, not your main source of damage anyway.
There’s probably not the answer but a lot of options and depends on what the player considers important or not.
The only spears that really change the equation are War Pike (slower than any of the elite polearms but with the highest base damage) and Mancatcher (faster than any of the elite polearms but with lower base damage).
The other spears have roughly equivalent polearms for speed/average damage, so nothing really changes there other than you having a couple more options depending on what you find.
Stygian Pike and Ghost Spear are roughly the same as Great Poleaxe (and Ogre Axe, but that only has max 3os so can’t be an Infinity base). Same speed, same average damage, but wider damage range. The dex requirement on Ghost Spear is pretty high, but it’s still usable, it’s not quite as bad as Colossus Voulge - an eth Ghost Spear should be wearable on a level 85 merc (91 for non-eth). There’s really nothing new here compared to Great Poleaxe.
Hyperion Spear is roughly the same as Tresher/Giant Thresher except Hyperion Spear is max 3os so can’t be an Infinity base.
20: War Pike
10: Cryptic Axe, Colossus Voulge
0: Ogre Axe (max 3os), Great Poleaxe, Stygian Pike, Ghost Spear
-10: Thresher, Giant Thresher, Hyperion Spear (max 3os)
-20: Mancatcher
Within each speed category, the average damage is usually pretty much identical. Higher speed weapons have lower base damage. So it’s basically just about picking what speed you want.
There’s some consideration with max sockets too. Ogre Axe and Hyperion Spear are automatically out as they can’t get 4 sockets. Then the bases that get max 4os (Colossus Voulge, Stygian Pike) will be a bit easier to find because if you get one with no sockets you can Larzuk it to get 4 sockets (or rolling on a 3/6 chance with the cube recipe). With the 5 and 6 max socket bases you’d be rolling on a 1/6 chance with the cube recipe or hoping for a natural 4os drop.
Stygian Pike is a nice option now, but mostly because it’s easier to find since it has max 4 sockets but then doesn’t have the high strength requirement that Colossus Voulge (the only other max 4 socket option) has, and it’s a bit faster than Colossus Voulge too. I don’t think it’s the optimal choice because it’s still a bit slower compared to Thresher/Giant Thresher/Mancatcher, but Stygian Pike should be the easiest one to find a 4os eth so it’s nice for that.
The best base is the elite eth base you find and your merc can wear it.
Yep. My (single player) Infinity is in an eth Colossus Voulge.
After I got the runes I spent a while farming cows hoping for a better base (I already had a pair of eth 4os Colossus Voulges), but just settled for the Colossus Voulge in the end. After all, an Infinity in a sub-optimal base is better than no Infinity while you spend forever farming a better base.
k so why not ethereal.
ethereal is just a myth. it’s bogus noob bait. For other runewords it’s mostly good, but for infinity it is not at all anymore.
So i’m going to get all mathematical genius on you here and explain why ethereal mancatcher infinity is a meme. Listen close, and buckle up.
Alright alright alright, take an act 2 merc and dress him up pretty.
Andariel Visage jewel 30%fr-15%ias
Treachery
Mancatcher infinity
This is max attack speed possible for infinity merc.
What’s the difference between an ethereal and a non ethereal Mancatcher both attacking at 5.56 jabs per second?
Enemy target is hell Diablo
White damage
Non-eth = 3387
Ethereal = 4727
A difference of 1340 in favor of the Ethereal. I mean 1340 damage is 1340 damage amiright? Well, let’s get down to the true nature of Infinity’s physical damage, a little guy i like to call Crushing blow and his friend Attack Speed.
So max attack speed for mercboy with infinity is 5.56, and infinity has a crushing blow chance of 40%, so when geared up as is the merc will do
6195 Crushing Blow damage to Hell Diablo per second.
That knocks the socks off white damage. So when accounting for full dps of a merc with an ethereal or a non ethereal we get these differences.
True physical damage
Non-eth = 9582
Ethereal = 10922
The difference is not even noticeable.
K but wait, there’s more
Here is the kicker. So this is why Mancatcher just ruins everything else as a base. It’s base attack speed is so fast, that you dont even need Andariels Visage to reach max attack speed. You can take Any helm you want to use for your merc, and socket it with a 15%ias jewel and with Treachery armor the merc is capped attack speed.
So why is this so good, what are the numbers.
Well, take Guillame’s for example, with a 15% ias jewel you will be getting this kind of dps from your merc’s mancatcher alone.
Non-eth = 15002
Ethereal = 16342
Even non ethereal is ridiculous dps
So why does anyone use an Eth Thresher still? Because they are sheep. They dont do the math, they follow the lead and are slow to adapt.
Here’s what an Eth Thresher infinity does to hell diablo.
So with Andariels for max 5.56 attack speed you get
Eth Thresher = 11483
With Guillame’s 15%ias jewel for max crushing blow and 5.0 attack speed
Eth Thresher = 15582
OKAY SO WHAT DOES THIS ALL MEAN? THEY ARE ALL PRETTY EQUAL IN DPS???
well the answer is simple. A non eth mancatcher is just as good as everything else you can make infinity in. You can also take that non eth mancatcher infinity and WEAR IT YOURSELF, especially sexy on a spear amazon. You can also swap out gear on your merc as you wish, you are far less forced to specific items to reach max dps like the other bases. Remove the attack speed from the merc with any other base and the damage plummets. An eth Thresher merc with Fortitude and Guillame’s does 13k dps.
Dont go laughing out loud at people who run Fortitude with Eth Thresher infinity, but
Andariel’s 15%ias jewel
Fortitude
dps = 11391
(insert fail whomp whomp)
And yes, these calculations all done on a Might merc, so it goes even more in favor of the Manacatcher if you arent using a might merc.
So there it is, Non Ethereal Mancatcher is the best base for Infinity. If you’re rich and can afford 2 infinitys, make two non eth mancatchers.
iam not even gonna read that you are a clown and have no clue whats up. first of all mancatcher has lowest damage per second of all polearms + not having eth weapon on mercenary is dumbasness. mercenary got to kill elite that is immune to your element and tha requires dps.
Say you have a Lo rune to trade for a base, which one do you go for? Which ones can’t you afford with Lo?
I thought about going gface + Mancatcher but then there’s no life leech
Go for eth mancatcher or eth thresher if you’re able to get one. Otherwise, whatever eth base you can get.
who are you, amber herd? Give your man a potion. besides, life steal doesnt work on 40% of the mobs anyway.
Notwithstanding your main point, haven’t you still proven that eth mancatcher technically has more DPS than the non-eth variant? This would especially be the case for when your merc is fighting non-bosses that have much lower hit point counts. More damage, more leech too.
So it doesn’t really make sense to make 2 non-eth mancatchers when you can make 1 of each, and I’m sure there are more builds in the game that use an infinity merc than there are builds that self-wield AND hit enemies with an infinity spear/polearm.
well the reason would be, the second non eth mancatcher would fetch more from trading in the future. Not now because people are slow to learn real value, and scammers will constantly tell them “eth does more damage duh”. But eventually when people figure out the real numbers, you dont want to be caught trying to trade an eth mancatcher for less then a non eth.
The damage is very slightly in favor of eth, but the value of not being locked to a merc is far better. Eth doesnt mean 50% more damage in this runeword. It’s literally just 10% for the cost of being merc only.
the difference in leech is around 150 a second.
if you have 5-6 infinity’s flying out of you stash left and right, i dont see any reason not to have a few eth mancatchers for merc only.
That’s highly speculative and relies on the reasoning that people will “catch on” and suddenly demand for non-eth mancatchers. Except I doubt they will, because as I said, eth ones are technically superior provided you’re not self-wielding and whacking/prodding.
There are many more non-eth mancatchers that drop in the game and more demand for mercenaries that use an infinity (who can use an ethereal one), so there will be a shortage of supply for eth mancatchers relative to non-eth ones.
For builds that use an infinity merc, think
Where as there’s really 1 mainstream build in the game that uses a non-eth infinity spear: lightning strike spearazon, and even then they might use a matriarchal spear anyway.
For any given battlenet tag, they will have at most 1 non-eth infinity for their spearazon and n number of eth infinities depending on the number of builds listed above they have.
In short, your theory doesn’t really hold up.
So all of that calculatuon that you just made depends on actually wearing treachery?? Did i read that correctly? At the point of building an infinity, most people 99% will be using the better fortitude in which case thresher and gt with 15% ias jewel in andy helmet is the way to go in order to reach the ias breakpoint.
btw claiming non eth is better than eth for merc on its own is just ridiculous how on earth can u try to make anyone believe this
I like Eth Duriels and Vamp gaze, 15 ias jewel each, for extra lulz throw in some extra ED.
For barb and wind druids, with act 2 merc, I like Eth trech, Kiras 15 ias ed jewel, and Eth reapers toll, 15 ias ed jewel.
For a lot of cookie cutter stuff you can go eth fort, and eth andy visage with eth insight or infinity.
there are options, Generally I think Eth vamp gaze and Eth duriels are best, because lets face it, you will be doing most of the killing, on some rare occasions you might run into an immune if you rock infinity on your merc.
Ive seen physical/light immune cow king, so whatever, all that damage isnt going to kill it regardless.
There isn’t a be all end all setup. It varies from player to player, some may go eth pride, with an act 2 might merc on a bow zon, others might go faith merc while weilding windforce.
Apples and Oranges.
He did not say that, he said that the cost of being able to use the weapon only on a merc, outweighs the benefit of the extra 15% DPS you get from the ethereal version. All due to the crushing blow.
As most of the DPS comes from the Crushing Blow, damage depends much more on speed (how many hits/sec) rather than the actual weapon damage.
| Hell Diabo HP | 110000 | Andariel’s Visage + 15% IAS | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| CB chance | 40% | Treachery | ||
| CB coeff. | 0.13 | |||
| phys res | 45% | |||
| CB damage | 1512.5 | |||
| Eth Mancatcher | Eth Great Poleaxe | |||
| hps (normal+jab) | 8.4 | hps (normal+jab) | 7.5 | |
| DPS normal | 1561 | DPS normal | 1760 | |
| DPS Jab | 3954 | DPS Jab | 4460 | |
| DPS CB | 12705 | DPS CB | 11344 | |
| Total DPS | 18220 | Total DPS | 17564 | |
| Mancatcher | Eth Stygian Pike +10% ED | |||
| hps (normal+jab) | 8.4 | hps (normal+jab) | 7.5 | |
| DPS normal | 1107 | DPS normal | 1797 | |
| DPS Jab | 2804 | DPS Jab | 4554 | |
| DPS CB | 12705 | DPS CB | 11344 | |
| Total DPS | 16616 | Total DPS | 17695 | |
| Eth War Pike | ||||
| hps (normal+jab) | 6.63 | |||
| DPS normal | 1757 | |||
| DPS Jab | 4856 | |||
| DPS CB | 10028 | |||
| Total DPS | 16641 |
| Hell Diabo HP | 110000 | Andariel’s Visage + 15% IAS | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| CB chance | 40% | Fortitude | ||
| CB coeff. | 0.13 | |||
| phys res | 45% | |||
| CB damage | 1512.5 | |||
| Eth Mancatcher | Eth Great Poleaxe | |||
| hps (normal+jab) | 7.5 | hps (normal+jab) | 6.25 | |
| DPS normal | 2185 | DPS normal | 2282 | |
| DPS Jab | 5347 | DPS Jab | 5584 | |
| DPS CB | 11344 | DPS CB | 9453 | |
| Total DPS | 18876 | Total DPS | 17319 | |
| Mancatcher | Eth Stygian Pike +10% ED | |||
| hps (normal+jab) | 7.5 | hps (normal+jab) | 6.25 | |
| DPS normal | 1549 | DPS normal | 2330 | |
| DPS Jab | 3791 | DPS Jab | 5702 | |
| DPS CB | 11344 | DPS CB | 9453 | |
| Total DPS | 16684 | Total DPS | 17485 | |
| Eth War Pike | ||||
| hps (normal+jab) | 5.24 | |||
| DPS normal | 2186 | |||
| DPS Jab | 5733 | |||
| DPS CB | 7926 | |||
| Total DPS | 15845 |
2000 dps difference is not nothing imho. I mean i agree its not huge but the fact you spend 2 bers on a rune word makes it worth spending another Lo or Sur for an eth base to squeze out the max possible.