No leak plumbing

[akerswater]

Trick of the trade when making standard water fitting connections try wrapping teflon tape 3-5 wraps then a thin layer of liquid teflon. Once the fitting is tight wipe off any excess and your good to go. Got this tip from my plumbing agazine and it stops any little seeps, works great.

 

[Pumpman1968]

Ya know, when I started doing plumbing in the mid 80's, I was trained by a guy in his 60's who learned the trade working on New York City's Aquaduct System. That guy used "rope and dope" on EVERYTHING and never had a leak. I was pretty lucky to learn the trade from someone with a lot of experience. Plumbers these days wouldn't know what to do with a residential steam boiler.........or know what a Hartford Loop is. We packed cast iron hubs with oakum and poured lead.

When we installed boilers, we built headers that looked like we cared about what we were doing.........all the valves lined up, piping was hung and strapped with rubber cushions and service outlets were installed. I see what guys are doing these days with pex and things look like they are just slapped together..........get in, get out......with no regard for what it looks like when they are done.

 

[Gary S]

The only truly no-leak plumbing I've ever seen was the kind that never had water in it. Plumbing is supposed to either leak or clog.

 

[akerswater]

today very few plumbers take there time and really appreciate the fine art of true pipe fitting. Its sad to say that the mighty dollar takes precidence over quality workmanship. anyone have any other plumbing tips? thnx for info

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[liquidcougar]

I see what guys are doing these days with pex and things look like they are just slapped together..........get in, get out......with no regard for what it looks like when they are done.

I HATE that. Nothing gets under my skin more than shoddy workmanship. Especially when you're fixing someone else's lousy work. I don't know how some people sleep at night leaving their work "finished" like they do.

I like pex, but it requires a serious amount of patience to install correctly and neatly. I only use it when a standard brass-and/or-copper install means too much time and money.

Keeping on topic though, any NPT fitting 1" and under, I use teflon tape, 3 wraps minimum. If a joint seeps, I muscle it another quarter turn and that usually takes care of it. Anything bigger than that I use blue dope, and I have yet to develop any leaks with it.

I've never used liquid teflon though...

 

[MrMark]

I know that plumbers do this but I personally don't think it's right. I don't like the idea of the tape and dope combination because it is not manufacturer approved.

 

[Falcon67]

I've been told the same from the pro plumbers I race with - china fittings need 4-6 layers of tape plus dope plus a little prayer.

 

[joe_padavano]

If you guys have something that works for you, great. All I can say is that I've been doing my own plumbing for 30 years now, and all I use is the thick pink teflon tape, 2-3 wraps. No dope, nothing else. Never had a leak at a threaded joint. This includes completely replumbing our old log house, our tenant house, two barns, my shop, and all the underground piping in between.

By the way, I use the same technique on all NPT joints, including pneumatic, gasoline, and vacuum. Never had a leak.

 

[littletoes]

HAHAHA!

You guys are going to get me going on this one.......!

I've made fun of the 'new, young guys in the trade that use teflon. I always tell them, "What, you ain't strong enough to pull that wrench without the use of teflon...?"

I've also always said, you can tell a guys inexperience by their use of teflon.

I DON'T use it....nor have I needed it. If YOU use it, you are still learning, or you haven't learned to cut good enough threads to not need it. Over the past 15 years (and yes, I've been in the Trade much longer than that...), more "kids" have been using teflon as a crutch as time goes on. Sad.

Most don't even know that there is more than one width of teflon, nor the reason for it....and they NEVER knew that it was made just wide enough to cover the First Four Threads ONLY. Anything more than that is waste, and inexperience-and looks like crap.

Somebody posted above about some old guy who taught him the proper way to use teflon.....I'd like to have worked with that old guy and taught HIM how to run pipe without it!

Anyone here have any idea how many contractors I've made clean a system because they used so much teflon it was/is clogging the control valves & strainers on hydronic systems?????

Most gas valves have built in strainers....anyone know how many of those get plugged with teflon 'cause some "kid" can't seem to run pipe without it??? In Fact, you tell them NOT to use teflon, and they mentally lock-up.

Don't ever tell me how "good" or experienced a plumber/steamfitter/pipefitter/ sprinkfitter /gas-fitter/med-gas fitter/boiler operator you are, and still use teflon.

It's a crutch....and YOU need it....I don't, and I can prove it.

 

[premierplayer]

Rectorseal #5

done

 

[shack934]

It's a crutch....and YOU need it....I don't, and I can prove it./QUOTE]
Id love to see you prove that

 

[akerswater]

I remmember my uncle saying back in the day before plumbers tape they would cut there own thread and install dry. The water when pressurized would seep and rust sealing them up. Thats something how it was done back then. I heard when teflon came out it was called liquid gold because of its propertys and it was harder to obtain at first. I cant be sure on facts but today i use alot of red brass fittings as we do mostly underground waterworks. Btute force is not always the proper method with softer material than steel fittings. Theres a stetch/stress factor to consider when tightening properly, or you can end up with split out joints and "call backs". Now the new lead free fittings don't have as much give so thats another topic as we move towards this in the water industry today.
Gr8 input guys thnx

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[plumbstupid]

I use tape on copper and most brass fittings for water. Threads on new fittings are not cut like they were 20 years ago nor are the materials as good.

 

[rharman]

Rectorseal #5

done

+1 on that!!

 

[Falcon67]

I use tape on copper and most brass fittings for water. Threads on new fittings are not cut like they were 20 years ago nor are the materials as good.

Some of my smaller sections of home center pipe and fittings are sealed with JB Weld. Those for sure don't leak. Some of the fittings are just that bad. And not worth the fuel to return or exchange, so I just glued 'em up. If they come out later, they are cheap enough to go right in the trash. I did take back/exchange the half dozen 1/2" unions that were drilled off center at an angle.

 

[akerswater]

Haven't heard of that one but JB weld would certainly do the job sounds like. Any other plumbing tips out there?
Here in washington as of Jan. 1st were going lead free, any other states dealing with this?

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[mds5951]

Not sure if this is a tip, but I don't buy any threaded pipe from the big box stores. The stuff is crap.

 

[kams1973]

HAHAHA!

You guys are going to get me going on this one.......!

I've made fun of the 'new, young guys in the trade that use teflon. I always tell them, "What, you ain't strong enough to pull that wrench without the use of teflon...?"

I've also always said, you can tell a guys inexperience by their use of teflon.

I DON'T use it....nor have I needed it. If YOU use it, you are still learning, or you haven't learned to cut good enough threads to not need it. Over the past 15 years (and yes, I've been in the Trade much longer than that...), more "kids" have been using teflon as a crutch as time goes on. Sad.

Most don't even know that there is more than one width of teflon, nor the reason for it....and they NEVER knew that it was made just wide enough to cover the First Four Threads ONLY. Anything more than that is waste, and inexperience-and looks like crap.

Somebody posted above about some old guy who taught him the proper way to use teflon.....I'd like to have worked with that old guy and taught HIM how to run pipe without it!

Anyone here have any idea how many contractors I've made clean a system because they used so much teflon it was/is clogging the control valves & strainers on hydronic systems?????

Most gas valves have built in strainers....anyone know how many of those get plugged with teflon 'cause some "kid" can't seem to run pipe without it??? In Fact, you tell them NOT to use teflon, and they mentally lock-up.

Don't ever tell me how "good" or experienced a plumber/steamfitter/pipefitter/ sprinkfitter /gas-fitter/med-gas fitter/boiler operator you are, and still use teflon.

It's a crutch....and YOU need it....I don't, and I can prove it.

I like this guy! I was taught when using NPT fittings, the threads are the seal. If anything, the teflon is a lubricant. Who knows? I've been wrong before. Your mileage may vary.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Ya know, when I started doing plumbing in the mid 80's, I was trained by a guy in his 60's who learned the trade working on New York City's Aquaduct System. That guy used "rope and dope" on EVERYTHING and never had a leak. I was pretty lucky to learn the trade from someone with a lot of experience. Plumbers these days wouldn't know what to do with a residential steam boiler.........or know what a Hartford Loop is. We packed cast iron hubs with oakum and poured lead.

When we installed boilers, we built headers that looked like we cared about what we were doing.........all the valves lined up, piping was hung and strapped with rubber cushions and service outlets were installed. I see what guys are doing these days with pex and things look like they are just slapped together..........get in, get out......with no regard for what it looks like when they are done.

Amen

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Rectorseal #5

done

Ding ding ,we have a winner folks,rector seal T-plus is da stuff.
And yes I used it on water/hot water boilers /steam boilers and gas lines for many years before retiring.
If you want to carry around a pipe threading machine on every service call you do thats up to you,I had enough stuff to carry around in my van back when I still worked everyday.
So I just relied on supply house pipe nipples on most smaller jobs,If you use a little common sense and dont put a whole can of crap on each joint and bleed the air from your gas line at the union before gas valve on longer runs(depending on situation of course) you shouldnt have problems with clogged screens.

 

[Tuxy]

I am both a registered gasfitter and plumber in New Zealand. I have been trained to use hemp and graphite paste for water fittings and have never had a leak in my career. for gas we use the thick gas thread tape with sealing compound for joints this is the required jointing method for warrantee on said fittings.

I have been told by Rheem hot water cly warrantee guys that tread tape should be used on the outlets of their clys because they believe the over time the hemp will dry out and leak, personally i thinks thats bull shit, but i dont claim to know everything

Tuxy

 

[Pumpman1968]

Very similar to the "rope and dope" method I was trained on............even though it appears another member read it as I was trained on Teflon. Apparently, he doesn't use any thread sealant. Sure would like to see how well that works. Sure, back in the day, fittings were USA made and were uniform........but even then I would like to see the disaster a year or so later on 2" plus nipples/fittings after they have been heated/expanded and cooled/compressed.........bet it looks like a drip system over the veggies at the grocery store.

 

[premierplayer]

Do all plumber/gasfitters in NZ use hemp?

We call it 'lamp wick'
aka - mop strings

back in the day, it was lamp wick and perma-tex

boy, was that messy
but it worked
oh yeah there were man sized wrenches too

 

[littletoes]

About 100 years ago, linseed oil and cement was the "pipe-dope" of choice...it was/is a genuine Mutha to get apart! Better to just break the fittings with a hammer and start over.

akerswater-Lead has been illegal for water piping for years. Solder could not have more than 2/10's of 1% lead. Most would use some type of silver-alloyed type of solder. BUT! Most of your brass faucets (if not all), as cast using lead...that means it is impossible to get the lead out, except time and several million glasses of water-drink up!

Never heard, nor ever seen a "dry" pipe thread....now on galvanized pipe, if you had a leak, you could be patient, or wrap the leaky joint with a wet rag that was wetted using a brine mix. It would rust up solid, but with todays glycol (anti-freeze), blends, they will never "rust-up". The inhibitors used with/in the glycols would stop the rust, and leak more. But YES, pipe threads are tapered, and do perform most of the sealing.

If your dedicated enough, and search long and hard enough, you will most likely find on the internet where I've did enough research, and even found on 3M's web-site, where they have studies that prove teflon will indeed weaken a pipe joint. Has to do with thread engagement, and how it prevents same.

Nevertheless....please, don't take the advice from some guy that's "plumbed a house or two, oh! and even their shop!".

Listen to the guys on this site that have run miles and miles of pipe. That are certified in dozens of different forms of attaching piping, and its appurtenances.

There are several on this site....me included. Just don't forget-most contractual warranty's run for 1 year, and on occasion 2 years. That means that they shouldn't have leaked in that amount of time.....BUT! The guy that has been nursing the same systems for years and years KNOWS.

I left the construction field/Trainer-Educator of the Trade, several years ago, and now work as a Steamfitter/Gas Fitter/Boiler Operator/etc. etc. etc.....refrigeration....electrical...inspector...etc. etc. etc. of a local school district that has over 67 different sites, over 138 boilers and tens of thousands of students. I AM certified in several different forms of piping connections, some most here have most likely never even heard of......No big deal.....and I mean it, but if anyone has a way to get up here, I can prove it.

'toes

 

[akerswater]

Littletoes, thnx for all the advice, sounds like you have been in the trade awhile with many stories to tell. As far as lead free i know many states are already there. In washington were just beginning to go that way. Have you or any others out there encountered problem with these new lead free fittings? I know when sweating these new fittings it takes more heat and a little prayer. I take it thats because the lead content is so low and the other alloys contribute to this?

Most of the fittings we use today are import red brass just to stay competitive in the industry, as we do waterworks outdoors. All prices are going up about 30% on these fittings "ouch". I think we are going to experience more problem with these new fittings because of these other alloys added. An old timer told me with new products on the market "Time Will Tell" give them afew years then get all excited about em if there any good.
akers


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[rodm1]

You must be working with imported fittings!

 

[Tuxy]

Do all plumber/gasfitters in NZ use hemp?

We call it 'lamp wick'
aka - mop strings

back in the day, it was lamp wick and perma-tex

boy, was that messy
but it worked
oh yeah there were man sized wrenches too

yea most plumbers use hemp and paste if you do it properly its not to hard to tighten

i got a question for people here do you ruff up your threads with tread tape as your ment to do with hemp?

 

[Tuxy]

There are several on this site....me included. Just don't forget-most contractual warranty's run for 1 year, and on occasion 2 years. That means that they shouldn't have leaked in that amount of time.....BUT! The guy that has been nursing the same systems for years and years KNOWS.

the way our codes are written is that our pipework shall last at least 25 years

I'm not to sure how your codes and standards are but in NZ / Aus plumbing gasfittings and drainlaying are very regulated industries and it is ilegal for unqualified people to touch. the way the qualafacations in NZ are run it takes 4 years to do your apprenticeship to sit the exam to become a registered tradesman (as i am) and then you must work for a certifying tradesman for 2 years to be able to sit the certifying exam. once you have your certifying ticket, this allows you to draw consents to do work. most jobs other than simple maintenance require a building consents. building consents usually mean the local council can charge you excessive amounts to come and inspect your work by an inspector that has never been on the tools

plumbing is the most regulated of all trades in NZ until not to long ago it was under the misntry of health to deal with licensing and laws around it but now it is under the department of building and there are a fuck load of people getting paid lots of money for doing fuck all regarding the administration of it...

thats why it takes between 7 to 10 years to become fulling qualified in plumbing gasfitting and drain laying in this country and even though it is the best paid trade in the country the money is still pretty crap compared to what can be made in Australia, but at-least we dont have to put up with Australians over here jk dont go nuts you ausy bastards

 

[littletoes]

Littletoes, thnx for all the advice, sounds like you have been in the trade awhile with many stories to tell. As far as lead free i know many states are already there. In washington were just beginning to go that way. Have you or any others out there encountered problem with these new lead free fittings? I know when sweating these new fittings it takes more heat and a little prayer. I take it thats because the lead content is so low and the other alloys contribute to this?

Most of the fittings we use today are import red brass just to stay competitive in the industry, as we do waterworks outdoors. All prices are going up about 30% on these fittings "ouch". I think we are going to experience more problem with these new fittings because of these other alloys added. An old timer told me with new products on the market "Time Will Tell" give them afew years then get all excited about em if there any good.
akers


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Actually, if you'll notice, I'm in Washington. Lead-free has been happening for a while, actually. I would think the problems your having (when soldering), are with the new water-based flux's, and not with the solder itself, or the fittings. I haven't had a problem with the solder, but some of the flux's make fitting make-up a pain in the but. With old Oatey #5, fittings would just slip together, but with some of this new stuff, you have to fight them a bit. Tolerance's seem tight, but they are actually no different than before. Cu fittings are still type L. I think you have to watch your heat closer than with Oatey, and you can't let them sit for a day, you flux 'em, you should solder them the same day you put them together. 4" & 6" copper (I've never ran 8" copper), take a bit more time, but if you have experience working with larger sizes, then it won't be so bad. The great thing, they clean up beautifully with a pale of water and a rag.

Now, since your talking about "outside", are you talking the "Ford" fittings, as referred to in the industry? Soft solder isn't legal outside under a slab, you have to silver-solder, which is 1000 degrees minimum-actually higher temp than brazing. Lower percentages of silver don't flow as good as higher percentages, but are cheaper. 5% as compared to 15% or 65% silver content.

Hope this helps, but if you could post a link to the type of fittings you mean, that would help. To be honest, I haven't been having any problems with newer fittings and soldering. It is different, but not impossible. If you are talking about some type of mechanical joint, which one?? There are literally hundreds.

'toes

 

[littletoes]

the way our codes are written is that our pipework shall last at least 25 years

I'm not to sure how your codes and standards are but in NZ / Aus plumbing gasfittings and drainlaying are very regulated industries and it is ilegal for unqualified people to touch. the way the qualafacations in NZ are run it takes 4 years to do your apprenticeship to sit the exam to become a registered tradesman (as i am) and then you must work for a certifying tradesman for 2 years to be able to sit the certifying exam. once you have your certifying ticket, this allows you to draw consents to do work. most jobs other than simple maintenance require a building consents. building consents usually mean the local council can charge you excessive amounts to come and inspect your work by an inspector that has never been on the tools

plumbing is the most regulated of all trades in NZ until not to long ago it was under the misntry of health to deal with licensing and laws around it but now it is under the department of building and there are a fuck load of people getting paid lots of money for doing fuck all regarding the administration of it...

thats why it takes between 7 to 10 years to become fulling qualified in plumbing gasfitting and drain laying in this country and even though it is the best paid trade in the country the money is still pretty crap compared to what can be made in Australia, but at-least we dont have to put up with Australians over here jk dont go nuts you ausy bastards

I can only speak for Washington State.

To become a licensed Journeyman Plumber in the State of Washington, you are first required to finish a 5 year apprenticeship with a minimum of 10,000 hours of work experience. Then you can legally take the Journeyman test, but you must be able to prove your experience by the purchase of an apprentice state license for the previous 5 years. It is a 3 part test, with water sizing, waste sizing, and vent sizing and a huge section on plumbing code.
To receive the first level for working on gas piping in this area, you must have 3 years of experience/apprenticeship to take the test for Heating Mechanic I. Two more years and you can take Heating Mechanic II. HM I is good for equipment and pipe sizing to 300,000 btu's. HM II has no limit.

You can't even apply for a Medical Gas license until you have a Journeyman Plumbing License.

There is more if you are truly interested......way more!

 

[Tuxy]

I can only speak for Washington State.

To become a licensed Journeyman Plumber in the State of Washington, you are first required to finish a 5 year apprenticeship with a minimum of 10,000 hours of work experience. Then you can legally take the Journeyman test, but you must be able to prove your experience by the purchase of an apprentice state license for the previous 5 years. It is a 3 part test, with water sizing, waste sizing, and vent sizing and a huge section on plumbing code.
To receive the first level for working on gas piping in this area, you must have 3 years of experience/apprenticeship to take the test for Heating Mechanic I. Two more years and you can take Heating Mechanic II. HM I is good for equipment and pipe sizing to 300,000 btu's. HM II has no limit.

You can't even apply for a Medical Gas license until you have a Journeyman Plumbing License.

There is more if you are truly interested......way more!

yea whats the deal with doing the work do you need consents for anything though your local councils?

 

[littletoes]

yea whats the deal with doing the work do you need consents for anything though your local councils?

Of course.

All work must first be permitted, except appliances that are to be replaced such as on the same wall. Sink for sink for example-without changing any plumbing. A hot water tank, for example must have a permit, otherwise somebody could get hurt-relief valve installations for example, or any gas piping.

Larger jobs must first have plan approval before you can start.

None of this means that every job gets an actual permit. Because of laws in this state, home-owners are allowed to do any of the work themselves-which is a good thing-WHEN INSPECTED. Joe-homeowner doesn't usually know what they are doing, regardless of what individuals think. I've seen a lot of improper work done over the years-usually not permitted either, but there are some jobs that looked good.
I haven't ever worked in houses, other than for friends. Most of my work was either commercial or industrial.
Most house-plumbers don't even know how to take fittings off.....they just guess, and it shows. Easy to get away with, with all the plastic stuff out there these days, waste piping or otherwise.

Answer your question?

 

[59 wagon man]

here's a really funny story about z10 yrs. ago contractor mag celebrated their 50 anniversary so they ran the mag's cover from the first year of publication and one of the headlines was the lack of good help and craftsmanship

 

[Tuxy]

Of course.

All work must first be permitted, except appliances that are to be replaced such as on the same wall. Sink for sink for example-without changing any plumbing. A hot water tank, for example must have a permit, otherwise somebody could get hurt-relief valve installations for example, or any gas piping.

Larger jobs must first have plan approval before you can start.

None of this means that every job gets an actual permit. Because of laws in this state, home-owners are allowed to do any of the work themselves-which is a good thing-WHEN INSPECTED. Joe-homeowner doesn't usually know what they are doing, regardless of what individuals think. I've seen a lot of improper work done over the years-usually not permitted either, but there are some jobs that looked good.
I haven't ever worked in houses, other than for friends. Most of my work was either commercial or industrial.
Most house-plumbers don't even know how to take fittings off.....they just guess, and it shows. Easy to get away with, with all the plastic stuff out there these days, waste piping or otherwise.

Answer your question?

yea pretty much the same here bro, HWCs can be replaced same for same as long as it is done by a registered tradesman.

you should like your doing pretty much exactly the same as i used to most of the work i have done has been large commercial stuff or high $ house stuff

a lot of the deistic guys i know are really ruff and dont really care about getting the job done right they just want to get it done quick.

 

[fireguy]

I prefer to buy American, such as Ward. The cheap chinaman or thai crap is expensive when you figure the cost of comebacks. I cannot afford to return the job site to replace a fitting.

For pipe dope, I like Perma Bond Anaroebic, not cheap at $50.00 a liter. But it does not leak. And it can be backed out when you make up the pipe and need to adjust the fitting line up.

 

[59 wagon man]

spool wick and pro dope or if it never comes has to come apart "grip"

 

[Steevo]

Rectorseal #5

done

+1 - I swear by it. It is all I use on threaded pipe.

 

[ez-duzit]

Very surprised no one has yet mentioned the best thread sealant, Leak Lock.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Very surprised no one has yet mentioned the best thread sealant, Leak Lock.

Yeah its great stuff till you get it in your hair and have to shave your head!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Of course.

All work must first be permitted, except appliances that are to be replaced such as on the same wall. Sink for sink for example-without changing any plumbing. A hot water tank, for example must have a permit, otherwise somebody could get hurt-relief valve installations for example, or any gas piping.

Larger jobs must first have plan approval before you can start.

None of this means that every job gets an actual permit. Because of laws in this state, home-owners are allowed to do any of the work themselves-which is a good thing-WHEN INSPECTED. Joe-homeowner doesn't usually know what they are doing, regardless of what individuals think. I've seen a lot of improper work done over the years-usually not permitted either, but there are some jobs that looked good.
I haven't ever worked in houses, other than for friends. Most of my work was either commercial or industrial.
Most house-plumbers don't even know how to take fittings off.....they just guess, and it shows. Easy to get away with, with all the plastic stuff out there these days, waste piping or otherwise.

Answer your question?[/QUOTE
I spent more years in the trades than Id like to remember most days.
And while Ive seen many a hack job by homeowners who watch too much tv and you tube,some of the worst hack work Ive ever had the privelage to tear out and replace was done by these jack asses who moon light one craigslist as journeyman plumbers and electricians who should be beaten with their own tools.
Ive also seen my share of licensed contractors on commercial/industrial jobs who I wouldnt trust to change a cartridge in a shower valve.
I retired my electrical contractors license and master plumbers license at the end of last year,but Ive still got a few bigger electrical and plumbing/mechanical contractors across the country that call me to help when they get short handed or get into something really old/unique that scares the younger guys.